Curse

Countess Marie · Jun 25, 2011, 09:25 AM // 09:25

I know this runs the risk of being deleted because it's another game, but hear me out. I'd also like to make sure that everyone, before forming a rebuttal (if you have one...), has tried the other game, too.

First and foremost, the main issue with Guild Wars pvp, beyond obvious balance issues, was the inability for new players to seamlessly enter the high-end pvp community. 8 man pvp does not group like say RA. Why not? There could easily be 8 man random groups but in a separate tier from the "real" stuff to at least allow players to get a fair shake and experience.

The second is balance. League of Legends has a 4 skill bar for each character and many characters. It then has two utility skills that you can choose from (and offers more as you level.) So, I am not going to say it would require the same amount of effort to balance GW with it's 8 skill bars and two huge pools (Prime and secondary.) But maybe that was one of the reasons why GW pvp was always imbalanced. I can tell you when you are playing League of Legends, it doesn't feel like anything is missing. It's still the same idea of rock paper scissors.

In summary (and although I could continue, I think I've said enough for something that might get deleted), League of Legends is a very simplistic format of pvp but it doesn't feel like anything is lacking. It's still just as intense as a GW pvp match. But it's more user friendly.

Think of AB. People might think that the format of AB was what lead to its popularity (its pvpve), but I say that the reason it was popular is it was level 20 large scale pvp that you could group into no matter what you "rank" was.

Peace

-CM

SpecialOpsNox · Jun 25, 2011, 10:47 AM // 10:47

is he really comparing guildwars pvp to league of legends?
about the inability to new players, that's because new players don't like to play with other new players, all they want is to play with high end players and have easy wins, all they want is a easy game..
about the balance issues in pvp, ye i kinda agree.. and it's a shame really.

Wabo · Jun 25, 2011, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Just to begin with: tl;dr.
When I have noticed your topic name it said enough for me already.

I quit playing guild wars a while back ago, just sometimes wandering online in town. The main reason why I played guildwars was because the awesome PvP. Since PvP has died in guildwars I stepped over looking for another game, and indeed I found League of Legends. The PvP in LoL is much more fun, and more team based. (i.e ambushes). Now I know some people are going to rage this topic because '' Omgad you comparing LoL to GW?? wut? no ectos??'' But if you are a Core PvP player like I am, you have to atleast TRY LoL PvP before posting in here IMO.

EDIT: Before posting any xxxxx like, ''In LoL you have 4 skills, and you can't adjust them, and in GW we have 8 skills we can adjust them in thousands of ways and we only have to spam 1-2-3-4-5-6-7'', then think again. Guild Wars 2 will also have 4-5 STANDARD skills, with 3 open for choise.

akelarumi · Jun 25, 2011, 12:01 PM // 12:01

First of all Guildwars 2 doesn't have 4-5 standard skills, The skills however comes with your equipment. Change your equipment and those skills change. So your right by saying it is more fixed then GW1, but wrong by saying it is totally standard.

For the rest of the topic, I wont comment alot. PvP is nearly dead unfortunally. But comparing it with other games is useless imo. It wont solve a lot to try and implement it in GW. For all the PvP-ers who loved GW-PvP in the past im saying lets hope for the best in GW2. Cause Im not seeing how it will ever be fixed in GW.

Swingline · Jun 25, 2011, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I have to agree that pvp is dead or in the last stages of dying. Balance is not the only issue but its a good portion of it(about half). People say that they never should have released new professions but they are only looking at one angle. What should not have happened was the release of new skills for existing professions. That way every class has the same amount and less skills are easier to balance.

gremlin · Jun 25, 2011, 01:27 PM // 13:27

PVP works under certain limited conditions.

1 person vs 1 person where no one is interested in who you are or how you play.
Team where you form a team from your guild and then take on another team.

Also no rewards for playing your reward is the fun of playing don't like fun then don't play games.

The rewards have made people farm pvp rather than playing for enjoyment, if your farming you want speed and easy wins so you can rinse and repeat.
It also makes these "farmers" act like complete idiots most of the time.

paK0 · Jun 25, 2011, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countess Marie

The second is balance.I can tell you when you are playing League of Legends, it doesn't feel like anything is missing.

-CM

Um, u sure you did play LoL?

The balance is horrible, even with 2 bans per team there are always a few "flavour of the month heroes" that decide the pace of the game (Jungle Eve at its prime, Irelia pre nerf, the broken tanks, etc....)

Also in league of legends not the team with the best average skill wins, but the team that does not have the worst player.

There are a lot of games out there that have a better PvP than GW, but you have to pick one of the ones that is worse?

Aljasha · Jun 25, 2011, 02:06 PM // 14:06

The balance of LoL is bad, to be blunt, and LoL rewards players poorly for playing as a team. The fact that it is gear-driven doesn't make it any better.

Pugs Not Drugs · Jun 25, 2011, 02:51 PM // 14:51

The LoL I remember was always imbalanced when a new hero came out (Xin Zhao, Vladmir) and dominated by FoTM's. It was a fun game, for sure, and the developers did their best to keep it balanced, but I feel as though they purposely made new heroes OP so people would rush to buy them (I know I did), and then nerf these heroes in the next update. The new FOTM was always a counter to the last FoTM, so you had to follow the metas if you wanted to win. (granted, GW isn't very different) I remember I used to love Rammus, but everyone considered him to be a "teir 3 hero" and underpowered, but they people realized how OP a 3 second taunt was in the current Meta, so he was abused like crazy, and then nerfed. =(

So yeah, nty. (BTW those teir lists are annoying. People treat Elementz as a god and will literally rage if you don't choose a tier 1/2 hero)

_Aphotic_ · Jun 25, 2011, 03:07 PM // 15:07

I agree. And we should extend GW PvP matches to being 30mins-1hour long as well.

poppu16 · Jun 25, 2011, 03:59 PM // 15:59

We can't compare 2 differents game types.

BUT i think anet got a lot of things to learn from LoL on the eSport side, in order to increase pvp (mostly gvg) reputation and attract new competitive players :
The Dreamhack LoL Championship event from last week was really hugh, with more than 200k viewers on their livestream channel (on LoL main website).

Kanyatta · Jun 25, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Even though, as stated previously, GW is dead or in the last stages of dying, implementing things to make it like LoL would essentially cause everyone to quit the game.

What made GW good in the first place was the uber amount of customization you could have on your character. Sure, you can only have 8 skills, but as higher-end PvP proves time and time again, it's about the best player on your team. You can pit 8 good players with clearly inferior bars against a team of 8 mediocre players with the most IMBA bars in the game, and the better players will win 100% of the time.

GW PvP has always been about positioning, tactics, and equipment moreso than skills and bars, except in places like HA where FoTM dominates everything. That's probably what part of PvP most resembles LoL, or at least has the best chance of resembling that.

All in all, I have played LoL, but not too much. I always thought it would actually be fun if it were more like GW, rather than the reverse.

Countess Marie · Jun 25, 2011, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I'm back for a short celebration because this topic has not been deleted.

I also wanted to say that it's too bad when people comment on a topic without reading it. It seems they skip around to words like "GW" "LoL" "Balance" and "Skills."

I am going to say that LoL is more similar to GW than you guys want to admit. Is it the same game, no, but I bet someone who was good at one could easily switch to the other. That is the basis for comparison.

Did I say one is better? No. I said that GW pvp could learn a lot. This is what they could learn:

TOO MANY SKILLS. You're kidding yourself if you think LoL is, right now, more imbalanced than GW and GW has had like 6 years to fix their balance issues.

GROUPING IN GW IS NOT DONE OPTIMALLY. The fact that you can't play a GvG format by going into a town and clicking "play" and get grouped with other people... or a HoH format, either, similar to the way it does AB, is kind of a travesty. That would do a lot to keep its pvp going.

Obviously some players are more skilled (but more than likely simply more experienced) than others. But on the other hand, likely every GW player that ever played wanted to try GvG and HoH but I bet a larger percentage of them than you think got turned off instantly by the difficulty of finding their way into it. For a PVP game (And GW is supposed to be) the grouping is awfully hard.

If it had capitalized on all of that... then the pvp might not be dead.

Edit: Also, to the person who said LoL is gear reliant... the game format is that where you start out at level 1 with a small amount of money each game. As you progress in each battle, you gain levels by your performance. You also gain money. You then buy the gear you want just the same as you assign the stat points you want with each level. It's just another variable. Nothing is carried over to the next battle.

-CM

UnicornStampede · Jun 25, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppu16

more than 200k viewers on their livestream channel (on LoL main website).

That's because they embedded the stream into their launcher, if you opened the game, you were counted as a viewer. And the main decider of whether you won or lost was because if you dc'd. There is no pause system and the reconnection system is horrible (worse than the one in GW). And I lol'd hard at the commentator saying that the pause system isn't needed because that would let teams discuss strategies.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 25, 2011, 08:33 PM // 20:33

And in the end, you gave no suggestion.

Closed.